Posted by Roberta Grimes • September 03, 2022 • 92 Comments
When morning gilds the skies, My heart awaking cries:
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Alike at work and prayer, To Jesus I repair;
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Does sadness fill my mind? A solace here I find,
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Or fades my earthly bliss? My comfort still is this,
May Jesus Christ be praised!
The night becomes as day. When from the heart we say:
May Jesus Christ be praised!
In heav’n’s eternal bliss, The loveliest strain is this,
May Jesus Christ be praised!
– Anonymous/Unknown, from “When Morning Gilds the Skies” (ca. 1744)
Jesus does not want to be worshiped. I mean, He really does not want to be worshiped! I have experienced the sting of the Lord’s aversion to being worshiped on a personal level, so I know whereof I speak. Feminists in the nineteen-sixties used to say that a woman needs a man the way a fish needs a bicycle, and that about sums up the way Jesus feels about being worshiped. It has been nearly half a year since I sat beside Him on that astral riverbank and helped him feed His pet fish, and over and over since that night I have replayed in my mind the moment when He blurted, “Why are you so afraid of me?” He sounded genuinely hurt that night, as if I had out of the blue told Him that He had a bad smell perhaps, or even told Him that I thought His precious Gospel words were garbage. But my only confounding problem was His overwhelmingly powerful personal energy. I couldn’t even look at His face.
Jesus had been patient and kindly that night with the Christians who had come for His blessing. They could feel His energy just as I could feel it, since in the astral plane our personal energies are impossible to hide. Among the rest of us, Jesus was God on the riverbank. It is no wonder that the tall man who was first in line to be blessed tried to fall to his knees in worship. But Jesus had been ready for that, and He had kindly helped the man to regain his feet. So, why had Jesus taken my reaction to His energy so personally?
Thomas lets me figure out most things on my own. And this has taken me quite some time. Thomas and I have met with Jesus often over the summer while my body slept, but I have not been allowed to remember those meetings. Basically, I have spent some time in the doghouse. That meeting beside the Lord’s astral river happened without Thomas’s having briefed me at all, so I seem to have flunked whatever test that was. And then Jesus tried out the possibility of doing a kind of Mikey-and-Carol thing for His upcoming website, where people would ask Jesus questions, and it turns out that I can hear Him in my mind just fine; but no way would people ever believe that I can chat with Jesus in my mind! So I have put a panicky kibosh on that idea.
It is easy for us to understand a human being wanting to be God. But how much harder it is for us to understand God wanting to be human! I am trying now to better understand Jesus so I can do a decent job with His website. And when I asked Thomas for the umpteenth time to tell me what we have been talking about when we have been meeting with Him all summer, he told me that he has been doing for Jesus what Jesus needs, and doing for me what I need. Which helps me not at all.
So then on Wednesday morning, I began to get bits of a memory of what I soon came to realize we must have been doing on Tuesday night. Thomas and Jesus were sitting together on a little astral hillock beneath an orange sky, talking and gazing over Jesus’s river; and I was nearby. I didn’t have a sense of having a body. I was fascinated to realize that they seemed to be speaking in a kind of pidgin, several languages at once, so I recognized what sounded like some English words, and also French words and Spanish words, and also many words that I didn’t recognize. They were speaking softly, and their voices were rich with affection for one another. As the memory deepened, I was enjoying just listening to them. They have told us they were brothers very long ago, in Jesus’s last earth-lifetime before He ascended to the Godhead level, and you could hear that familial affection in their voices as they talked. I didn’t know what any of it meant, or the mixed languages, or whatever they were saying, but it didn’t matter. And this went on for a while. Clearly, they were happy just to be together.
Then Jesus was saying something more loudly, and standing, and dodging away from Thomas. I heard my Thomas mutter, “Brat!” as he was reaching for Jesus, but he missed Him; and then he was chasing Him into a herd of deer that happened to be nearby. I was horrified! I seemed to be very tall, or else I was rising above them so I could watch the drama of Thomas chasing Jesus among the deer. The animals were tame, so although some were spooked, most just moved out of the way and dropped their heads again to graze. I could see now that Jesus was nearly doubled over with laughter, but Thomas seemed to be genuinely angry. Jesus was dodging, watching for Thomas, but my Thomas was taller and stronger and inevitably he was going to catch Jesus. Which of course he did, and then they both went down. I didn’t want to see whatever was going to happen next, but perhaps I was supposed to see it. I rose higher. And there they were, in astral robes, my spirit guide and Jesus, the risen Lord, fighting like teenagers in the astral grass. But they weren’t really fiercely fighting. And astral bodies cannot be damaged. Thomas was holding Jesus down. I thought I heard Thomas say “Smite me, brat! Go right ahead!” and words I couldn’t recognize. Jesus’s eyes locked on mine, and there the memory ends.
By Wednesday afternoon I had resurrected that whole awful memory. And of course, I wouldn’t have it unless they both wanted me to have it. But I had to know how all of that had ended! And what had they been fighting about? Were they back on speaking terms by now? Tentatively I said to Thomas, “Will you tell me more about last night?”
“That was back in July.”
That was all that he wanted to say, but I got right in his face, so to speak. So then he sent me more in a bolus of thought.
Thomas told me almost fiercely that Jesus has not been human for thousands of years. Even as Jesus, He was born from the Godhead. So now Thomas was helping Jesus recall how it had felt to be human. And how to communicate by speaking in words, rather than sending whole ideas. And how to feel human emotions other than love and bliss.
What? So they had just been play-fighting? Thomas caught my thought. He sent me a second bolus with the further information that Jesus is incapable of feeling anger. They have learned at least that much. That is why the whole religious notion of an angry God is “hogwash.” Thomas said that word separately. “Hogwash.” He was telling me that even in the last lifetime that they had lived as brothers, Jesus had been incapable of feeling anger, just as I was sending him the mental image of a ticked-off Jesus chasing money-changers from the Temple with a whip. Thomas said, “At least, now He cannot feel anger!” as I was saying, “Are you crazy? Remember who He is! If He really did smite you, you’d go up in smoke!”
So then Thomas said, sounding bitter, “You could be of some help, you know. Instead of hovering around like a fool every night!”
I was outraged by that, and with reason. I haven’t even known what was going on! But Thomas was on a roll. He said in words, “You know He doesn’t trust people in bodies. You could help Him. Teach Him. I last died a hundred years ago! I am reminded of what it was like to be human only by guiding you! He wants to learn better English. Converse with Him in English. Just stop being so uneasy around Him!”
“Is that so He can talk on His website?
“And what if it is? Would you deny Him that?”
But how is it possible to explain to Someone Who has not been on earth for two thousand years that the fact that He is the most popular person on earth will not translate to popularity on His website? People expect Jesus to stay in His lane! He is God, for heaven’s sake. He is a religious figure! But Jesus’s greatest wish is to find a way to shield His personal energy enough so He can walk into some random building on earth in an astral body, and be with people again. He wants to just simply talk with people in English. In Spanish. That is all that He wants. I type these words, and my eyes fill with tears. Because He knows that He really can’t do that now. His elevated personal energy would give Him away. Or, worse, what I most worry about is that people would think He was an alien being, and they would turn on Him. But even if what He is planning now is just some kind of Second Coming on His website, that is never going to work. No one would believe such a thing could be real. But who is going to explain that to Him?
Thomas finally realized on Thursday that I am just too thick to ever figure out why Jesus treats me differently, so he said just two words. He said, “Inner circle.” And after another half a day, I slapped my forehead. We think in terms of these little lifetimes, but Jesus has been living one continuous astral lifetime for the past two thousand years. If you are Jesus, your life is a very long game. He is used to the fact that the people closest to Him will repeatedly come and go. And I have no memory of it now, but apparently Jesus has a much-loved inner circle of friends. After I figured out the basics, Thomas filled me in. I first met Thomas at the start of the Roman pogrom against nonconforming Christians, some seventeen hundred years ago, so that was when I first met Jesus. And I became a part of this inner circle of people who are His personal friends. I have come and gone in His life through repeated incarnations as I lived seventeen lifetimes with Thomas, all of which were centered around protecting the Gospel teachings, and the last of which before this one was lived in the nineteenth century. I have no conscious memory of any of this while I am in this body, of course, but now I know it to be true.
Thomas tells me that Jesus’s inner circle is not composed of religious figures. We are just what Americans might call His buddies, or the British might call His mates. And we are all male, or nearly all male, so the fact that in this lifetime I am female has been a source of some amusement. When we are between lives, we are in our right minds, as Thomas puts it, but when we are taking earth-lives we are living with diminished minds and amnesia issues. And beyond the fact that Jesus has more time to be social now, and He wanted to discuss with Thomas and me some details of His upcoming website, one of the reasons why He wanted to meet with me on April 6th and have me remember the meeting was that one of the Christians about to be blessed would be a mother who had died in childbirth, and who would be coming to Jesus with her baby in her arms. Jesus had thought that might be a bonding moment to help me feel more at ease with Him, since I might speak with the mother and hold the child. There seems to be something about this gender-change thing that has put me out of sync with Him. But of course, I still was so nervous to be with Jesus, and He couldn’t risk upsetting the mother, so instead Thomas took me with him down the river while Jesus blessed the mother and her child.
But at least, I finally do get it now, after having spent this whole earth-lifetime feeling awkward around Jesus. I understand why He uniquely trusts me. Why my mind syncs so easily with His that I was able to channel Liberating Jesus, and why when He wants to speak to me in my mind, I can hear His voice as clearly as if He is speaking to me on a cellphone. Thomas tells me that I have begun to give Jesus lessons in spoken English conversation at night, sitting there on the riverbank and talking with Him. Now I even will look at His face. When Jesus told me a little joke, Thomas says that I was able to smile. But I still have trouble believing that I am past being stupid about Him, so for now it seems to be just as well that I not be allowed to remember our meetings.
Jesus the risen Christ dearly loves people! All that He has done for the past at least five thousand years, He has done for His pure, joyous love for billions of people as individuals. Jesus doesn’t want worship because worship distances people from Him. So, no, Jesus doesn’t need religion. He doesn’t want religion. And surely, after all that He has done for us, the least that we who love Him can do is to try to give Him what He actually wants.
Let earth, and sea, and sky From depth to height reply,
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Be this, while life is mine, My song of love divine:
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Sing this eternal song Through all the ages long:
May Jesus Christ be praised!
– Anonymous/Unknown, from “When Morning Gilds the Skies” (ca. 1744)
92 thoughts on “Jesus Needs No Religion”
I had to real all the above three times, Roberta. There is so much I’d like to say but here in your personal blog just isn’t the place.
The ideas in your piece are so big and beefy and they need big and beefy responses – but your blog just isn’t the place. 🙁
real? READ!!! Oh this blog format is such a nuisance…….
mac. I appreciate not having this blog turned into a debate forum.
I don’t really know what protocol is acceptable when posting in a blog, Ray. Does an interchange of ideas between responders constitute a debate?
Oh my dear Mac, this was such a pivotal week for me. As actually I suppose that this is shaping up to be a pivotal year for me, too! We always suppose that our own lives are normal, because what do we have to measure them against? But I am coming to understand that the relationship that I have with Thomas is not usual. And, wow, the relationship that I have with Jesus certainly isn’t usual. I chalk some of that up to my having given my life to God more than a decade ago, and now apparently there is a buddy group, too. We’ll see.
I wish you well with your endeavors. 🙂
Perhaps you still don’t understand, dear Mac, that since April of 2009 I don’t have endeavors of my own. When I turned the rest of my life over to God, I took that commitment seriously. And in hindsight, apparently, so did God.
Then I will re-phrase my wish to say I wish you well concerning all the activities in which you are involved, Roberta. 🙂
But endeavor is no less an endeavor simply because it’s not your own and/or because you’re doing it for someone else, may I respectfully suggest? And because of the reasons you’re doing it, perhaps there’s even more pressure to do things well than if it were simply for yourself? 😉
Whatever your personal situation, sadly there can be no guarantee of success for those endeavors in which you are involved. 🙁
Good Morning Roberta! I have to tell you, I let out a big guffaw at the title this morning when I checked email!
Today’s post is rich in understanding for me,personally. I have struggled with the “worship thing” so often (cue the organ music), that I dismiss the sweet and obvious answers I seek. I was just thinking about this the other day; why do I struggle just being myself and letting Jesus be Jesus? Like you, I have channeled messages in my journals, messages I look at now and say, “yeah, no I could not have written that myself”, and there it is on paper, a conversation with the dearest most loving Being, but I still struggle and I think it’s because of the “self worth” issue. Like you, I have seen Him on the astral plane in dreams (I interestingly felt a sighing from “above”, when I capitalized “Him”) and a few have not left my memory because of their clarity and the love present. Like the tall man, I fell to my knees and huddled at his feet, grabbing hold with the intention to never let go, and professing my love for him. And like he did with the tall man, he gently guided me upright, and blessed me with an energy that gave me strength and I was so full of love and joy, I was swirling. But the one that always puzzled me was just before my father’s passing. I was with my dad in the astral along with someone else. My father had a question, and my immediate answer was “let’s go ask Jesus” and I had a very confident attitude. I can still see that brilliant white light and “calling” (without words) to Jesus and him coming to us. This time, I met him as an equal, a friend, as I posed the question. No groveling, no worshiping, no requirements of cleansing and being perfected; he met us as a friend would, and spoke to us as a friend would. When I told my dad about it, I saw his eyes light up. Remember he was a very strict Catholic. Yet, in daring to share that experience, it somehow gave my dad peace and happiness. He believed me.
You know, I’m sorry this is long guys, but I have to share that this experience lead to the most profound tangible experiences of Spirit that I’ve had. Without cumbersome details, I had a history of abuse with my dad. Yet, as I grew in my spiritual journey, my desire to forgive became so deep. I was given “signs” of his soon arriving passing, and it became a mission to forgive truly. I prayed all the prayers I knew, and still, at 53 years old, I had such deep fear of my dad. I shared those “signs” with a family friend who knew our dynamics-a priest, a kind man, not afraid to look outside the confines of doctrine. He cried and told me to not ever forget the gift of those signs nor the experience I had.
Remember, all the prayers I prayed so sincerely seemed to be of no avail. It was only when I got “real” that the shift happened. After the last “sign”, I flew into a rage. I YELLED at Jesus! I screamed, I demanded, I was nonstop barking orders that he ensure my dad’s safe passage, yelling about the past, etc. I did this nonstop and finally was spent. No more tears to cry. I went to bed, empty. When I awoke, (I can still see the beautiful light of sunrise on our bedroom wall that day), I sat up feeling, knowing “something” happened. There was a “quiet” that was deafening (I don’t know how else to explain it), I thought, “something is different”, and as soon as I thought it, I realized I was different. I immediately knew I forgave my dad, and there was no more fear. The joy I felt was indescribable. I was there with my dad for the last few days of his life. I saw him see the other side, I saw the golden orb leave his room. His passing, the memory of it, fills me with such deep appreciation for all Spirit does for us.
It is only today, in reading your blog, Roberta, that it “makes sense” to me. It was in being “real” with Jesus that the greatest desire (forgiveness) came to pass. Messy, maybe, but it was REAL. Your sharing, your willingness to be vulnerable and share what most the world would label craziness, is about being REAL, honest with Jesus, with God, with LIFE. Dang, girl…you are on a roll! I commit to being more and more honest and real with Jesus along with you. Have a very blessed and joyful day!
Dear Fran, thank you so much for sharing your experiences! To forgive others and ourselves is sometimes the hardest thing to do but so very important for the peace of our soul. To be honest and confident will always help us in doing so. Blessings to you!
Oh my dear beautiful and so precious Fran, thank you so much for this! So real and so perfectly wonderful that you were able to share this process with Jesus, and thank you for honoring us with the gift of remembering it for us here!
quote: “And then Jesus tried out the possibility of doing a kind of Mikey-and-Carol thing for His upcoming website, where people would ask Jesus questions, and it turns out that I can hear Him in my mind just fine; but no way would people ever believe that I can chat with Jesus in my mind! So I have put a panicky kibosh on that idea. ”
On that final remark I’m so in agreement you have reached the right decision. I’m confident when saying that WITHOUT FAIL any answer communicated through any instrument (medium or channeler) is potentially flawed. Any Q&A style forum would be unable to guarantee that the intermediary’s ideas, thoughts or prejudices were absent.
Indeed, any claim to be conveying the teachings of any discarnate individual is open to being challenged simply because coloration from the intermediary can not be ruled out. Coloration from the mind of even the deepest of deep-trance mediums can never totally be ruled out.
Dear Mac, I totally agree with what you have written! Although I myself had some awesome experiences, I always thought about them later and wondered, whether there might be any other explanation to it such as coincidence. I used to look at any unusual event from the standpoint of statistics. So, if one even questions one`s own experiences or perceptions, how difficult might it be to convince others (of course different depending on individual circumstances, but difficult when it comes to the mass). I think the best way to convince people of the existance of the afterlife would be the personal experience throw a technical gadget as a “soul phone”. I also thought about trying to get in contact through meditation or anything like that, but I`m afraid I would question my perceptions later on if I even had any…….
Blessings to you!
…..”through a technical gadget”, not “throw”…..; I seem to be a bit unconcentrated today……!
Karin for many years now my stance has been that ‘we’ are not – I am not – here to convince anyone about survival.
I will always try my best to help anyone who asks and perhaps point them in a direction they might wish to consider. But I never try to convince anyone about anything.
I do feel the most persuasive way may well – as you suggest – be through personal experience but what kind of experience will likely differ greatly between individuals.
And maybe one day a communication device WILL be created to enable people in this world to communicate directly with people living in the next – maybe.
quote: “I seem to be a bit unconcentrated today……!”
Been there, done that! lol 🙂
mac, one of our regular contributors here raised this concern when it was first mentioned. I concur with you both.
I’ve made similar observations on numerous occasions, Ray, over on ALF and on various websites over the years.
The essence for me is that no matter what message is being delivered I always apply ‘the Silver Birch’ test of heeding only what appeals to my reason. Whatever doesn’t I put to one side until it does. 🙂 😉
Oh my dear Mac, this is not my decision to make. My little ego wants to say no. But if Jesus asks me to do anything for Him, and even that, then of course I will do it. Of course I will. The whole world will call me a fool, and I will laugh with joy and pure delight to be a fool for Jesus!
As I intimated earlier, I don’t say “no” to what does not appeal to my reason – I just don’t say “yes” until it does. 😉
As so often we each have differing approaches, Roberta, and neither of us is wrong. 🙂
Dear Roberta, You mentioned Thomas saying,
“You know He doesn’t trust people in bodies.” Well, there is a perfectly cgood, substantial reason for that which came out of my rresearch on the OBE. As I have cited before, I have found three documented cases in which the individual having an OBE (all 3 from extrmne distress), and not having any control over their body, whatched as their body continued to act in a normally intelligen fashion. Thus it was demonstrated that , while our body is normally moderated in its behavior by the attched spirit (soul), the body itself owns consciousness, and, consistent with the Freudian psychoanalytic theory, has an Id (instinctive function seeking pleasure and avoiding pain), and an Ego which rationally moderates behavior driven by the Id. When our eternal spirit is detached from the body and then functions freely in the astral plane (what I term a universal field of consciousness, much as an ocean in which we participate as droplets), it has none of the selfish temptations that lead the dishonesty common to the Human experience.
Wow, my dear, Jack, weird and fascinating! But the spirit could not have been detached from the body because the silver cord, once severed, cannot be reattached. Are you saying that the body was still attached but nevertheless control was lost? Wow, weird indeed!
And Jesus has what you might call a particular occupational problem. According to Thomas, nearly every clergyman Jesus has particularly trusted and helped has used His name to raise money for himself and not to help the needy. Jesus has had His trust betrayed too many times, which is why He now doesn’t trust people in bodies.
In each of the three cases, they reported that they had no feeling from or control over their body, but the body then, by itself, continued to behave rationally (shouting from distress associated with a heart attack, watching their body swim to shore after departing over fear of drowning, slugging the truck driver who knocked him down on his motorcycle when the truck driver came over to offer aid). In my theorizing, I believe that everything that exists (really in the “mind” of God) is made originally by God from what God is).
Here is the published paper Abstract:
Evidence of the Body Possessing a Form of Consciousness Beyond Its Soul
Scientific GOD Journal |November 2021 | Volume 12 | Issue 3 | pp. 213-217.
Jack H. Hiller
Freud defined three primary psychoanalytic functionalities for motivating behavior that have fallen into disuse: 1. The ID motivating instinctive behaviors, such as satisfying hunger drives and reaction to immediate threat; 2. The Super Ego pursuing moral ideals, such as self-sacrifice and honesty; and 3. The Ego for resolving conflicts between the ID and reality, and accommodating Super Ego demands. Freudian Theory is now generally regarded as detached from the current science paradigm which seeks to anchor behavioral theory in brain neurology. Whereas the ID and Ego may be mapped to identified areas of the brain, no Super Ego brain locality has been identified. This analysis proposes a solution for the missing Super Ego. The Out of Body Experiences reported from the trauma of a Near Death Experience (NDE) or meditation describe a discarnate consciousness or soul that is inherently moral as it functions in a Universal Field of Consciousness. This paper reifies the Freudian Super Ego to be equivalent to the soul and thus supports revitalization of Freudian Theory as valuable for clinical practice and personality research.
That dos seem to be evidence that the reptilian aspect of the brain has a primitive survival instinct and some control of the body, doesn’t it? And that makes sense!
quote: “Jesus has had His trust betrayed too many times, which is why He now doesn’t trust people in bodies.”
One might remark that surely Jesus would naturally know better than most just how perfidious humankind is.
Less charitably one might also remark that Jesus surely knows that the design brief of the current version of the human allows personal freedoms that almost inevitably will sometimes/oftentimes/always result in selfish, nest-feathering behaviors.
You know, Mac, this is something that it has never occurred to me to try to do: judging Jesus.
But now that you bring the matter up. I’ve got to say that, no, He really doesn’t know or expect “selfish, nest-feathering” behaviors. Such behaviors in clergymen shocked and disgusted Him 2000 years ago, and they shock and disgust Him just as much today – and even more, when those clergymen are now praying to Him and making promises to Him and then using their new riches earned in His name for their personal purposes. No, He really is still as naive as a child about people. That’s what comes of loving people as much as He loves people, I am sorry to say. And you can throw out our textbook knowledge about how beings are at the various levels of development, too, I’m afraid, since He seems to be able to control that a lot more than I ever thought was possible.
quote: “You know, Mac, this is something that it has never occurred to me to try to do: judging Jesus. ”
I would never expect you to, Roberta. 🙂
But the context of my remark was what you yourself had written about the mistrust Jesus has for incarnates. “…..nearly every clergyman Jesus has particularly trusted and helped has used His name to raise money for himself and not to help the needy. Jesus has had His trust betrayed too many times, which is why He now doesn’t trust people in bodies. ”
I would expect Jesus to continue to be shocked and disgusted by the behaviors I described but does that mean that he is not expecting them? I respectfully suggest your last sentence implies he probably does.
quote: “No, He really is still as naive as a child about people. That’s what comes of loving people as much as He loves people, I am sorry to say.” At this point I have to apply the Silver Birch test and set to one side your first sentence, Roberta.
quote: “And you can throw out our textbook knowledge about how beings are at the various levels of development, too, I’m afraid, since He seems to be able to control that a lot more than I ever thought was possible.”
I don’t consider the guidance of other spiritually-advanced souls as “textbook knowledge” anyway and I won’t be throwing it out.
Would you expand on what Jesus “seems to be able to control.” ?
quote: “Thus it was demonstrated that , while our body is normally moderated in its behavior by the attached spirit (soul), the body itself owns consciousness,…….”
Accounts of out-of-body experiences are, of course, wholly subjective. What is reported by an experiencer can not reasonably be challenged but her/his interpretation of the event can.
Out-of-body experiences do not demonstrate that the physical body has an independent level of consciousness hence an OoBE can not be evidence of it.
quote: “When our eternal spirit is detached from the body and then functions freely in the astral plane………. it has none of the selfish temptations that lead (to) the dishonesty common to the human experience.”
When one’s animating spirit is detached from the body then death of that body has occurred. Roberta and I often disagree but about the point of death we warble from the same hymn sheet – death is a one way trip. There is no return after the so-called silver cord has detached from the physical body.
That’s different from an OoBE where a spirit functions ‘at-a-distance’ from this physical dimension’s constraints. As such it may indeed feel none of the lower emotions the incarnate experiences during life in-the-body.
Mac, what you say here is what I assumed before reviewing the OBE reports:
” Accounts of out-of-body experiences are, of course, wholly subjective. What is reported by an experiencer can not reasonably be challenged but her/his interpretation of the event can. ”
However, what I found was reporting from the OBE that was accurate even when the activities reported were too far distant from the physical body for it to witness activities, such as outside of the hospital where the body was located. In the 2006 text, The Self Does Not Die, ” it found that OBE reporting may be highly accurate, not merely subjective:
“Are near-death experiences (NDEs) just elaborate hallucinations produced by a dying brain? Or the exuberant fantasies of attention-seeking narcissists? As the accounts in this book abundantly demonstrate: Neither!
This book contains over 100 reliable, often firsthand accounts of perceptions during NDEs that were later verified as accurate by independent sources. ”
It was this feature of OBE reporting that caught my attention as an empirical demonstration that consciousness is discarnate.
What I meant by “wholly subjective”, Jack, is that the experiencer is the only one to see the spiritual side of the event. She or he may also see the activities of medics etc. and/or the state of her/his physical body during the event later classed as an NDE but medics and onlookers do not actually experience the NDE or see what happens to the spirit of the one who does experience it.
I should have made clear what I was meaning when I said ‘subjective’.
We’ve drifted into NDE and OoBE territory! lol
Before we return to the blog topic, though, I’d like to add that over on ALF we have a member who has told her own NDE story and the impact it had on her life. Unexpectedly – because she’s an American – the NDE happened here in the UK!
We had a number of conversations about what might be taken from a life-altering NDE (which many appear to be) and what their spiritual significance can be for their experiencers.
I hope readers interested in these topics visit with us over on ALF. 🙂 (afterlifeforums.com)
hello jack, I have began experiencing OBEs. I have now had five, they are very real. I would like to know your thoughts on these please. they begin with a loud ringing in my ears. followed by vibrations in my body, I then float out of my body..!! I am not asleep. I have floated across the room I was in and shot up in the sky like Apollo 9. I know there are people who would not believe what I am explaining, but I can guarantee ,these were real, the feeling when my soul/spirit separates are hard to explain, when I floated across my room,I was still “me” the me who was laying in my bed was separate..? jack I would like very much if you helped me to understand what happened to me……Jo O’hagen Ruddock.
What a wonderful joy to hear about your journey. Thank you for helping me to better understand Jesus, it helps me to feel closer to Him. 😀
Oh my dear Natalie, I think that what you have said here is really quite profound. They haven’t been letting me remember our meetings, but Thomas tells me that in substance this is what those meetings have been about, and what Jesus wants His website to be about: He wants to establish a relationship with you that is close and will enable Him to live and speak in today’s idioms, so He can teach you today. That is the only way that He can truly and forever put Christianity behind Him.
quite the challenge, Roberta – even for Jesus….
Oh my dear Mac, too much of a challenge. Even though I think that Jesus has never maintained a presence above Level Three, which fact in itself amazes me, the world has changed a lot in two thousand years, and His personal energy is overwhelming to be near. He is used to mental communication, He has mannerisms, and if you didn’t know who He was you might think He was a bit simple. He is just “different.” I am used to Him now, and I think He is wonderful! I would be prepared to try, but He is so different from the way we expect modern men to be that I just worry for Him.
You’ve made some very interesting and revealing points, Roberta.
I’ve often reflected on the notion of a new spiritual leader emerging to change the direction this whole world is heading – and we’re desperate for such a leader.
I don’t know at all the individual you know so well but I can not see how a man this world knew as Jesus could ever return to this world using his earlier persona. That applies equally to any earlier spirit / spiritual leader.
My thoughts are that no single individual is likely to have global appeal anyway and neither would any single style of teaching. Maybe a number of spirit teachers/guides/leaders, all spreading the same message, might appeal to a global population heading for 9 billion souls? Who knows?
Who knows indeed but I have no confidence any single individual could start the change, short of one who could metaphorically grab folk by the scruff of the neck by perhaps producing completely unexplainable phenomena as a way of establishing his – her? – credentials as a highly-evolved spirit leader. Or in some other globally persuasive way?
Not in our lifetimes though Roberta. As you’ve said before it’s viewing from the bleachers for us. 🙁
Good Day Roberta,
I have taken what you said to heart and it resonates with me. I have been picturing Jesus in jeans, a Tshirt and short hair for awhile now, but I recently started calling him Josh when I talk –or think I’m talking– to him. I see him as a friend and a brother, but someone I still want to emulate in loving others.
Oh my dear Gee, I love your comment! I only ever see Him in spirit robes, but that’s a nice comfortable long dress – it’s like what they wore when He was last on earth. And when I read your comment, I had the sense of the two of them reading it over my shoulder and smiling. I think He would enjoy being called Josh!
quote: “I have been picturing Jesus in jeans, a Tshirt and short hair for awhile now, but I recently started calling him Josh when I talk –or think I’m talking– to him. I see him as a friend and a brother,….”
And why not!!? 🙂
The spirit individual we still know by his earth name of ‘Jesus’ can be seen and thought of in any way that works for us individually. The reality is that this illumined spirit can present – or be represented – in whatever form is appropriate for his viewers/listeners. That will vary according to who is perceiving him and/or the way he knows will work best for the individual(s).
The reality is also that this highly-evolved spirit may present to those in the ‘lower’ spiritual levels as a human-like individual with an appearance essentially similar to their own. But it’s long been taught that such highly evolved individuals actually have in their ‘natural’ dimension an appearance wholly-different, consisting of a pure energy that we might consider to be formless, intense light and color.
Very true. A high level spirit is able to appear in a form that the perciever is most comfortable with
All true, dear Mac and Lola. True down through all the ages, and still true today. But ascended beings soon lose touch with the earth, once they cease to incarnate and to act as spirit guides.
So I am told that Jesus made the initial decision when He ascended from His earthly lifetime as Jesus to remain at the third level of the astral plane so He could stay in close touch with His Apostles on earth. And then of course soon came the flood of persecuted martyrs by the millions, and then all the victims of the Inquisitions and the Crusades, and the billions of victims of fear-based Christianity itself, and for two thousand years Jesus has lived and taught and healed all those people in the astral plane while He has grown spiritually beyond all human comprehension. Thomas tells me that riverbank is only one of the places where Jesus receives people. He also spends a lot of time in the children’s afterlife villages, and of course most of the children there are the victims of abortions. He also teaches in the afterlife areas. But He doesn’t much hobnob on Level Six or higher. Thomas says that what he himself finds most interesting about Jesus, having known Him even before He was Jesus, is that the more elevated spiritually Jesus has become, the more simple His taste in people has become, and the more almost childlike He Himself has become. But didn’t He actually say that in the Gospels? We must become like children to enter the kingdom of heaven?
quote: “That does seem to be evidence that the reptilian aspect of the brain has a primitive survival instinct and some control of the body…..”
I’ve long seen such a situation this way. We ‘composite humans’ consist of “body-and-soul” to the effect that all our bodily functions are energized by our animating spirit but some/many/most of those processes run largely autonomously needing minimal direct control.
If that’s so then the human survival instinct might be overseen by the spirit but also be ‘hard-wired’ so as to operate without the need for constant oversight. An OoBE like those described above might well be the consequences of such a principle. But – and I know we agree on this – it does not mean there is separation of body and spirit during an OoBE any more than there is separation during a so-called near death experience. 😉 🙂
Mac, please see my comment to you above–there is substantial, hard evidence that consciousness is discarnate.
Jack I can’t recall my mentioning consciousness at all…..
Please excuse me if I did and refer me to where it was so I can take a look.
Mac, when subjective experience is the topic, alternatively “consciousness” IS involved as the source. A heavy reliance on “subjectivity” falls into the philosophic pit of solepcism from which there is no return:
” Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one’s mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one’s own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. ”
The counter is that one or more people may describe the same or similar phemenological experiences, thus pointing to a reality beyond the individual consciousness.
quote: “Mac, when subjective experience is the topic, alternatively “consciousness” IS involved as the source. A heavy reliance on “subjectivity” falls into the philosophic pit of solepcism from which there is no return”
So I hadn’t introduced that word into the conversation.
That’s a relief because I feared I’d forgotten. That would be a concern for me.
I’m such a simple soul, though, that solipsistic considerations don’t impact any points in my piece.
You introduced ‘consciousness’ and it may well be a worthy conversation topic but not here in Roberta’s blog about Jesus and religion. Over on ALF there are forums where it can be discussed at length. I encourage you to post there if such a conversation appeals to you.
I love your foray into Solipsism, it is not only interesting in itself, but it is a great tool for interior exploration of what consciousness is in actuality. I’ve also found it a probing tool for those who prefer to look within; their reaction to the premise of solipsism can make them squirm, unsettling rigid, long held concepts about their minds. I shift about a little too. Yet it is this discomfort that I find helpful for expanding beyond my limited closely held concepts.
For instance, if everything outside our own mind is unsure – is there really anything outside of it at all? Is everything generated by our mind alone, or is our little mind actually shared with other people’s minds. Maybe we just cannot perceive that we are all existing as parts of one mind. In addition, other minds might exist but we do not have the ability to truly perceive them. And so the mind question can be turned this way and that. To what avail? I don’t know. 😣
Personally I enjoy such ‘stretching’ questions; that deliciously keen discomfort, that swoon of reality vertigo, felt by being jarred out of one’s pedestrian, mental givens.
And I’ve come to realize a strange thing: If I think I know – I don’t know.
(Hope I’m making some sense beyond this ramble, my friend.) 😉🕊🙏🏼
According to what I have researched and concluded,
there is a clear difference between hoqw our minds opoerate while the body is healthy with its soul attached, and how our mind functions when soul leaves the body and is restored to its spiritual nature.
Ordinarilly, as material beings, our mind relies on its physical senses to know directly the material world; however, as Plato had realized, even then the mind must somehow beging beyond sense-perception as it realizes perfect objects such as geometric shapes, and also abstract concepts such as “good” and “beauty.” His theory is that their is a resiudual memory for the human mind of its knowledge as spirit, his theory of reminicence, which I believe is correct. I would add that our human mind also benefits from its God given conscience which was given the soul as it attached to a neonate.
When the soul detaches from its brain harness, as happens for NDEs, and OBEs (from deep meditation, lucid dreaming, spontaneously, and from psychedelics), ouir mind or consciousness operates in a Universal Field of Consciousness (UFC, what we may describe as the mind of God), and so is in contact with all that exists, depending on what it attends to.
Back to the human mind, their is good evidence that works of genius may have been enabled by tapping into the UFS:
” Select achievements by geniuses may thus reflect their having tapped into the universal mind (i.e., the transcendental knowledge in the UFC). Geniuses, such as Kurt Godel, Nikola Tesla, and John Nash, may have tapped into the transcendental knowledge contained in the UFC when their minds separated from their normal functioning locked to the brain.
Note too, that during dreaming (or deep meditation), the mind may separate from its attachment to brain to tap into transcendental knowledge. For example, Albert Einstein attributed his breakthrough in formulating Special Relativity to a dream (the one about watching cows getting shocked on a fence whose observed shock times depended on where an observer stood); but it is also important to note that his realization for what the dream meant depended on his mental preparation about the issue involved. Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1726), one of the most influential scientists of all time, suffered from mental illness. In 1693, Newton experienced a “nervous breakdown.” According to autism expert Simon Baron-Cohen, both Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton have shown many signs of Asperger syndrome, a form of autism that does not cause learning difficulties. Dmitri Mendeleev (1834-1907) attributed his formation of the Periodic Table to realizing its patterning in a dream. Nobel laureate James Watson (b. 1928), co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, reported stumbling upon the double helix image for the DNA chain through his dream of a spiral staircase. Srinivasa Ramanujan (1887-1920) was one of India’s greatest mathematical geniuses. He made substantial contributions to analytical theory of numbers and worked on elliptical functions, continued fractions, and infinite series. He worked for five years producing startling results and proved over 3,000 theorems in his lifetime. According to Ramanujan, inspiration and insight for his work many times came to him in his dreams. Niels Bohr (1885-1962) won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1922 for his discovery of the structure of the atom. He recalled that the electrons revolving around the nucleus, like the solar system, came to him in a dream. Upon testing his “dream” hypothesis, he was able to discover that the atomic structure was, in fact, similar to it. The scientist Friedrich Kekulé (1829-1896) discovered the seemingly impossible chemical structure of benzene (C6H6) when he had a dream of a group of snakes swallowing their tails. French philosopher and mathematician, Rene Descartes (1596-1650), claimed that the dreams that he had in 1619, revealed to him the basis of the scientific method. The German born physiologist, Otto Loewi (1873-1961), won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 1936 for his work on the chemical transmission of nerve impulses which came to him in a dream. Paul McCartney is one of the most famous and successful singer/songwriters of all time. According to the Guinness Book of Records, his Beatles song “Yesterday” (1965) has the most cover versions of any song ever written and, according to record label BMI, was performed over seven million times in the 20th century. The tune for “Yesterday” came to Paul McCartney in a dream. The scientist who is credited with working out that insulin is effective in treating diabetes, Frederick Banting (1891-1941) received the Nobel Prize in Medicine at just 32 years old. He dreamt about a diabetic dog and a surgical procedure that included tying up the pancreas. This led to a breakthrough relating to the disproportionate balance between sugar and insulin. Which led to another dream indicating how insulin could be used to treat diabetes. Millions of lives have been saved or revolutionized by this discovery.
Thus, it may be no random accident that some of our geniuses have exhibited mental dysfunction during their lives, because such dysfunction may actually have contributed to their exceptional achievements.” From a paper of mine with Kevin Williams contributing.
I was so happy to read this in your long post, namely, “Remember, all the prayers I prayed so sincerely seemed to be of no avail. It was only when I got “real” that the shift happened. After the last “sign”, I flew into a rage. I YELLED at Jesus! I screamed I demanded, I was nonstop barking orders that he ensure my dad’s safe passage, yelling about the past, etc. I did this nonstop and finally was spent. No more tears to cry. I went to bed empty. When I awoke (I can still see the beautiful sunrise light on our bedroom wall that day), I sat up, knowing “something” happened.
I have many times, Oh get real Cookie, every time, awakened and nothing happened. Usually, the order is I thank Jesus for his creation, his love, his rescuing me from a sticky situation. I conclude by letting him know how grateful I am for the list of items just recited. The thing is, in my heart of hearts I know I’m not all that grateful. Now you have shown me a way to get Jesus’s attention and let him know how serious your petition really is.
Thank you Fran,
PS. I find it weird that in that post I use a capital I but lowercase pronouns for Jesus.
quote: “PS. I find it weird that in that post I use a capital I but lowercase pronouns for Jesus.”
The convention is to use an upper case letter ‘I’ when referring to oneself, something I find totally acceptable because it’s the way I’ve always known and used it. And I find it decidedly odd to see pronouns capitalized, something I would NEVER do.
Never did I consider letting loose in God or Jesus. For whatever reason, my heart must have had enough and I let loose. I understand now the outburst wasn’t really to get Jesus’ attention, but for me to “empty my cup” of all the old stale useless crud in a true, honest, sincere way. That was needed to make way for healing, forgiveness, and love. Jesus knew all along I wanted to forgive my dad, and I’m pretty sure I had, but continued to hold onto the past while he’s gently trying to lift it from me. I guess I am saying that Jesus didn’t wave some forgiveness wand over me because I screamed at him; I finally let the past and the dark emotions go, so it could be lifted away from me. I needed to be clear with myself. Jesus is already pretty clear about everything.
Since then, I try to be direct, to the point and don’t mince words. The “niceties” of prayers taught and the format of them just don’t feel right to my heart anymore.
Fran: The format of prayers doesn’t seem right to me either. I think we are better off just saying what’s in our heart, like we are talking to a trusted counselor or friend, and who knows – that may be exactly who we are talking to!
” It is easy for us to understand a human being wanting to be God. But how much harder it is for us to understand God wanting to be human! I am trying now to better understand Jesus so I can do a decent job with His website.”
I can totally understand wanting to be seen as the same as others. Even here, we want to be accepted. We enjoy connecting with others even if we don’t realize it. What good is being a God if everyone elevates you to the point where many, if not most, can’t relate to you.
I’ve thought about this since you started posting about your experiences with Jesus. Is spiritually growing worth it if we then must leave others behind? I understand we don’t have much in terms of memory or understanding when here, but it kind of sounds lonely.
I hear you my friend. ❣️
I couldn’t agree more dear Lola. 🙏🏼🕊
I love to talk to Jesus just from my heart, as you suggest. It gives me something I can’t describe. 🌅
The way I understand prayer is simple. The rote mouthing of words such as heard in churches etc. has little, if any, value or meaning.
Prayer is the earnest reaching out by the one praying; a request perhaps for help, support, guidance etc. either for oneself or for another. It does not need to be spoken out loud but it does not harm if it is – whatever feels right for you IS right. Even tacit prayer will be recognised however.
True prayer is received by the entity/individual best able to provide what’s been earnestly asked.
There is no need to try to direct one’s prayers towards God, Jesus or whomever but neither is there any harm in so doing. If that feels right for you then it IS right.
Sincere prayer is always heard even though we may not see if there has been an outcome from our prayers.
Like other people here in our blog family, I too was struck by your comment that Jesus doesn’t trust people in bodies. He has been betrayed by humans too many times; countless times over two millennia no doubt.
And every single day love, innocence and honesty is betrayed in this world. The more people populate the earth, the more betrayal occurs. Twenty-first Century technology has provided myriad new ways to dupe, mesmerize and rob people as never before. Nonetheless Jesus loves every single soul to bits. Every soul in the afterlife – or in a human body living on earth – is loved perfectly.
It’s the juxtaposition of these two things that really keeps coming home to me:
1 Jesus doesn’t trust people in bodies.
2 He loves each person to the core.
These two things. If you set one next to the other feel paradoxical. These two statements are not outright contradictions, they are just very different and make me wonder about His nature when they are placed together.
For instance, how much forgiveness must Jesus have, to love the core of someone who has killed people in His name? It surely would hurt Him to see a religious figure twist His teachings into vitriolic dogmas of guilt, fear and fires of the pit. Yet Jesus forgives and desires only the enlightenment of the soul who was that injurious human cleric.
How much love does Jesus have to be hurt by seeing people abused, and then love the abuser completely? How deep is such complete compassion?
And therefore, how can we love each other like He loves us? How on earth do we do that? To make lovingkindness the air we breathe and forgiveness the substance of every cell in our body –
Of course, to disengage from people and love them from a distance, is something that many scarred and battered good hearted people do as they get older. Other individuals may (sadly) become embittered misanthropes if they see chiefly what is broken in humankind. However, should one choose to engage with and assist fellow human beings as one ages then how do we grow in love? Need we allow ourselves to be somewhat vulnerable, giving individuals opportunity to hurt us, then forgive the resulting pain and love them all the more? You know my dear, I’ve learned that there is a certain power in allowing oneself to be vulnerable emotionally, rather than shutting people out. Tenderness can be the greatest strength sometimes.
Roberta, these are just feelings and questions that arise from reflection and I’m not asking you to respond in any formal way. I just wanted to share. 😉❣️🙏🏼🕊
Oh my dear glorious and infinitely wise friend Efrem, I love our whole commenter family here, but so often they will take their discussions in various peripheral directions, while you, beloved Efrem, will instead go right to the heart of whatever I have been trying to say. My dearly beloved friend, exactly right! I have learned so much about spiritual growth, just by observing Jesus. As you point out, He loves and forgives each individual person perfectly, despite the fact that His trust is continually betrayed. Hundreds of millions of people have been tortured and murdered in His name over the past two thousand years, and horrible lies have been told in His name, so billions more have died in unnecessary terror, and He has been tasked with forgiving it all. Just imagine doing that, on a personal level! And being tasked with helping and healing all those people who have been harmed in His name! The result in Jesus’s case has been spiritual growth to such an extent that His personal energy is both perfectly silken, with no edges at all, and yet so powerful that unless He tempers it you almost can’t bear to be close to Him. All so perfectly amazing. Thank you, my dear precious Efrem, for understanding and appreciating the wonder of that.
You are so loved by all of us here. You are completely precious to us.
And it is I who thank Thomas and your good self, for showing us how beyond amazing our beloved Jesus is. Had you both not shown me these beautiful experiences with Lord Yeshua, I could not have conceived just how vast His love is, and how He has expressed it on a truly grand scale – at a personal level! ❣️🙏🏼🌅
“True prayer is received by the entity/individual best able to provide what’s been earnestly asked.”
This is something most people are unaware of but it isn’t necessary to address anyone specific
One reason for that, Lola, is that churchianity defines for most adherents what prayer is and often that means praying to God, praying to Jesus or praying to whatever other figure is seen as head honcho. I do sometimes wonder what prayer truly means to most of those who engage in doing it. Most times though I just shidad at most prayer rituals.
Silver Birch once remarked about the pointlessness of most prayer. (or something similar) Such spiritually-advanced souls totally understand, though, why folk do what they do.
Silver Birch, as usual, was correct. Ritual words are useless unless there is emotion involved (and there usually isn’t)
quote: “I love our whole commenter family here, but so often they will take their discussions in various peripheral directions,….”
You responded to one contributor: (you will) “…. go right to the heart of whatever I have been trying to say.” Yet in your piece you have written about so many other things that I am not clear which that heart actually was.
Your latest blog entry is entitled “Jesus Needs No Religion”, something easy to follow but one small part of a very long piece. Many other points left me puzzled. They were why I wrote what I did: “I had to read all the above three times, Roberta. There is so much I’d like to say but here in your personal blog just isn’t the place.”
A web blog doesn’t facilitate structured conversations so instead it was easier to respond to points other contributors had raised. I expect they might have felt similarly.
My Dear Mac, the fact that Efrem very often seems to read my mind more closely than you do means nothing in particular. No need to feel prickly!
I get “prickly” because you often don’t listen, Roberta. 😉 🙂
This subject matter is so all encompassing that it is easy to go off on little tangents sometimes, but basically, they support what I consider to be a fact – that Jesus doesn’t need, nor does he want, any organized man made religion
Oh yes precisely, my dear! Just right. Religions come between us and Jesus, and He hates that. He doesn’t even like it if you give him a little compliment, although He’s polite about it. I can’t remember what I said, something about how hard He had worked at something, and He just did a little smile and looked away. Never be a suck-up to Jesus.
Dear Robert and Mac,
The parable of the blind men perceiving an elephant is apt.
And to mix metaphors, we all have no need to sing the same note, at the same time, to contribute our thoughts. Regaredless, we will all end up in basically the same “place.”
My dear lovely Jack, you make me smile! Yes, we do perceive just little bits of what is an enormous whole – and we find it so hard to really grasp the whole picture! But, in the end, we do all end up in the same place, don’t we?
I completely understand why Jesus is uncomfortable that religion creates separation between him and those who seek him.
Many religions have a lot to answer for. Their ministers don’t speak truth to followers because the truth isn’t known to those ministers.
Faith or belief is expected of followers – neither works for me.
Roberta tells us Jesus has elected to remain close to the earth dimension and has spent the past two millennia in the Astral, in part working to distance himself from Christianity but also ministering to the myriad souls needing his attention during that time.
For an ordinary soul it would be a dreadful sacrifice passing on their natural spiritual progression to the ‘higher’ dimensions and remaining in the shallow reality of the Astral. For the extraordinary soul known as Jesus in his last incarnation the sacrifice must be infinitesimally greater. Like being perpetually confined to diaper training babies or teaching kindergarden when you have the intellect of a professor.
Were it any other soul we might reasonably expect such a situation would be deeply depressing.
Wow, do you think so? But He seems pretty happy to me! Thomas tells me that Jesus used to be distressed to see the condition that some of the victims of Christianity were in when they first arrived, but He would never be anywhere else. Thomas says that just the fact that He was there to welcome them and help them know they were whole now and loved was hugely helpful to them. And now, seeing how special His greeting and His blessing is to people is like food and drink to Him. He really does love people!
quote: “Wow, do you think so? But He seems pretty happy to me!”
What I had actually ‘said’, Roberta, was: “Were it any other soul we might reasonably expect such a situation would be deeply depressing.”
As for Jesus being (quote) “pretty happy” based on what you’ve written I’d say the discarnate we knew as Jesus in incarnate form is now nothing as simple as “pretty happy”.
I would explain why I say what I do but this blog format is too frustratingly clunky! lol 🙂
It sure sounds depressing, so I think he has access to those on his level and divides his time between them and us. We can’t possibly understand how a higher level being really thinks.
My dear Lola, the higher we rise, the more we blend with other beings of our same level, and apparently Jesus finds that thought depressing. As do may others, actually, but what they do is just to rise even higher. He really is happy now! You don’t love people the way He does (nor do I). Some people are dog people. He is a people person to the Nth degree. Thomas tells me that He has visited higher levels, but been bored there.
quote: ” I think he has access to those on his level and divides his time between them and us…”
That’s how Mikey Morgan has explained his own situation, Lola.
I agree with you that logically I would expect the spiritually-evolved Jesus might even NEED to ‘decompress’ (using modern jargon) by getting away from the Astral at times and being with others similarly spiritually elevated.
Yes, I had forgotten that Mikey said something similar. It makes sense, as even though I’m not a high level being, I would love the option of interacting with more than one dimension.
It should be remembered, Lola, that Silver Birch had a spiritual ‘status’ that entitled him to live in the ‘higher’ dimensions. He ‘descended’ from whatever level he customarily lived in to make use of (quote) “his instrument”, deep trance medium Maurice Barbanell, in delivering spiritual insight and guidance about the so-called afterlife.
I believe he said he’d last incarnated 3500 years ago but chose to return – temporarily – to our own dimension so he could work through Barbanell, staying until Barbanell passed over. I think SB said he would never return to the physical.
My guess would be that continuing to live and work long term in the Astral level must be very, very challenging even if highly rewarding as is said to be for Jesus. This illumined spirit may be unique in having done this. It’s something I had no awareness or understanding of until Roberta’s blog.
with my greatest respect
You’re right. He was never heard from again after Barbanell passed. I miss him, as nutty as that sounds, although I think he was part of a collective
Unexpectedly – because ‘mac’ doesn’t routinely do Jesus, God or religion – I’ve found myself engaged by the many and diverse points in this blog entry.
BUT as I wrote at the very start of the responses: “There is so much I’d like to say but here in your personal blog just isn’t the place. The ideas in your piece are so big and beefy and they need big and beefy responses – but your blog just isn’t the place.” And I’m finding that situation frustrating.
Roberta appears the soul (sole! 😉 lol) source of insight into modern-day Jesus. But there’s nowhere to properly ask her questions. Yet we have a brilliant forum available, something I have the honor to look after.
The format of this blog is like sitting in a university lecture given by a highly-knowledgeable specialist professor. We might ask an odd question during the lecture but have to leave with no way and nowhere to progress our studies.
I would like to ask about the many stimulating details in this section of the blog but I know that after this weekend this blog section will just become an archived page and a lost resource.
Just my sad observations and not intended as criticism. 🙁
quote: “the higher we rise, the more we blend with other beings of our same level, and apparently Jesus finds that thought depressing.”
A depressing thought but at the same time he’s happy overall? That sounds like my life as an incarnate…..
Might it be that the chosen but unnaturally prolonged period in the Astral – and its closeness to the physical and all that’s experienced here – has resulted in Jesus continuing to experience a range of emotions he should/would long ago have left behind had he made a conventional journey of spiritual progression?
I say that based on how often I’ve heard incarnates express their distaste and dismay at the prospect of losing individuality as they progress spiritually into the ‘higher’ spiritual dimensions.
This world appears in as dire a state as it has ever been so the prospect of Jesus ‘moving on’ looks pretty remote for any foreseeable future – poor guy. 🙁
“Might it be that the chosen but unnaturally prolonged period in the Astral – and its closeness to the physical and all that’s experienced here – has resulted in Jesus continuing to experience a range of emotions he should/would long ago have left behind had he made a conventional journey of spiritual progression?”
This is a very interesting thought and is probably true
Jesus may not need worship, but I do.
I don’t mean going to church . I pray alone;
I kneel at night.I like praying, talking to Jesus.
He keeps me centered.
I have a prayer card that ends with– taking His hand, so I don’t walk alone.
I couldn’t do this Earth thing without Him.
Oh my dear lovely Erica, I don’t believe Jesus considers that worship. I think He sees that as friendship.
I agree, she is doing exactly as he himself suggested.
quote: ” I miss him, as nutty as that sounds, although I think he was part of a collective.”
It doesn’t sound nutty to me. 😉 I am so often referring to his guidance and occasionally remembering well enough to quote his actual words….
I got ‘into the spooks’ (Brit saying) some years after Barbanell had passed but for years I enthusiastically studied SB’s compiled teaching. It’s said you can’t miss what you never had but you can sense how much you might have found had things been different. 😉
My guess is that most, perhaps all, spirit guides work with others when offering guidance, perhaps drawing on their specialised knowledge but using the communicator’s delivery via the agency of the medium.
I think that is exactly what happens
Jesus may not need worship, but I do!
Not in a church
I feel calmer, steadier after I pray.
I just thank Him a lot.
When I am exhausted, I say a known prayer. The classics work too.
I ask Jesus to hold my hand. I am no match for Him.
Oh my dear beautiful Erica, thank you – this is a very timely comment! I think you are helping Jesus to make a decision that Thomas and I have been watching Him move toward making. We don’t need the church, but we do need Him!