Posted by Roberta Grimes • March 07, 2016 • 26 Comments
Afterlife Research, Death
(Adapted from an article published in the March newsletter of Helping Parents Heal, a wonderful source of support for bereaved parents. Go to helpingparentsheal.info for information and assistance. You are not alone.)
The death of a child may be the most painful experience that life can bring. For most, the grief is a process to be managed; it isn’t something that you really get over. But many bereft parents find solace in gaining a better understanding of their children’s lives now, and fortunately the afterlife evidence has a lot to say about the deaths of children. From the perspective of the child, early death turns out to be a peaceful time of love and joy.
The Death Process for Children
Those in spirit who are given the special duty of managing childhood transitions already deeply know and love each child. They take special care to make certain that children who are leaving their bodies will never know fear. If beloved relatives have transitioned before the child, then Grandma or Aunt Jane will come to the child’s bedside and playfully lure the child away; or otherwise, the deathbed greeter might be an angel, a Star Wars hero, or even a religious figure. The point is to make that moment of freedom from the body a happy time for the child.
Often, pre-adolescent children will first be given some distracting treat. Tales abound in the afterlife literature of children taken to astral fields so they can play with the lambs, or led to the door of a beautiful child-sized playhouse full of like-aged children. Perhaps a little girl might wake up in a princess castle, or a little boy in the stable of the pony that he always wanted in life. Especially if there are no familiar people there to greet the transitioning child, it is important to ensure that these children – many of whom were very sick before death – will at once feel healthy and distracted and nurtured.
Evidence suggests that the very youngest will be tended by actual angels. 
Infants and miscarried children, and children who are the victims of abortion, are picked up by angelic beings and carried to the villages where they will grow to young adulthood. It is striking, and important, to realize that those who manage pre-birth deaths make no difference between discarded fetuses and those that had been wanted by their parents.
Growing Up in Heaven
Many parents find comfort in thinking that a child is “with Grandma now.” And indeed, if a familiar relative or friend is already there, then growing up in her Summerland home is often seen by those who oversee this process to be the best option for the child. Too often, though, there is no one really suited to doing what the dead seem to see as the most important task in their world: the gentle rearing of children who are briefly separated from their parents.
For children who have no one close to them already living in the afterlife 
levels, there are beautiful group homes and villages where they can grow up at their own pace in an atmosphere of perfect love. Apparently even young children will grow to young adulthood in just a few earth-years, but since they are living outside of time they can let their maturing take as long as they like. The children’s homes and villages in the afterlife levels are off-limits to any but a few carefully chosen people who make of the perfect rearing of these children a beautiful and sacred joy.
Nothing can replace the love of their parents. But in the childhood areas of the afterlife levels, children will never again know pain, or fear, or any other negative emotion. They will live immersed in love and joy. We have good recorded communications received through deep-trance mediums in the first decades of the twentieth century, when many of those who had recently died had lived rather hardscrabble lives. I recall reading one communication that was received about 1910 in which the fellow who had died complained about how much he envied those who had died as children because they had enjoyed such happy childhoods. They had no way to understand how painful his own childhood had been!
What About Our Young-Adult Children?
No child should die before we do. The loss of a child at any age can be the cause of agonizing pain, but it is important to understand that every new arrival in the afterlife is similarly greeted and loved. Even if your own child has committed crimes, or has died due to a drug overdose or a suicide, there is no judgment by a religious figure. There is no condemnation. Instead, once our older children are prepared for it, there is a life-review in which our children are helped to see how they might perhaps have acted more lovingly or have made better and more productive choices. Every child of every age is perfectly loved. No matter how their lives went here, they remain eternal beings who receive all the love and understanding and nurturing that their parents wish they still were able to give them.
Reunions
No matter the age at which a child transitions, they await us as beautiful 
young adults who have loved their parents and been close to them throughout the balance of their lives. Oh, the hugs! The laughter! The tears of joy! Grown children will have been so close to their parents that they know the details of the rest of their lives, but they will have a lot to share about what they have been up to during the separation. Everyone who has recently transitioned is given a party (they seem to party a lot in heaven), and having these children with them again makes the parents’ parties especially joyous.
Communication Across the Dimensions
Many of those who have gone before us will attempt to send us signs of their survival, and this is especially true of children. Deep grief is a negative energy that can act as a barrier to communication, so as difficult as it may be for parents, it is important that they do what they can to manage their grief so it won’t block contacts from their children. And it is important that parents be alert for signs. If anything is noticed that might be a sign – even if there is some doubt – it is important to say aloud, “Thank you! I see that. Please do it again!” Parents who watch for and acknowledge signs can sometimes be deluged with them.
Consulting a good spiritual medium can help to assure you that your child 
is doing well. Make certain that you check references! But nothing else is quite the same as actually having a conversation, so you will be glad to know that progress in being made on what Dr. Gary Schwartz of the University of Arizona at Tucson calls the Soul Phone. It seems likely that within the next few years, bereaved parents will have this wonderful new way to make certain that their children are not only fine, but they are having the time of their lives.
I am not sure I am clear on the idea of “children” per se in the afterlife. I feel we are all souls – with no age attached. We come into Earth life and of course have to grow because of the time factor but why do people reference children growing up after death? Don’t we just go back to being our soul which is ageless and then after a while reincarnate and start the process over? I did a past life regression [with Susanne Wilson] and died at the age of 12-14 and then explored the in-between prior to this incarnation and I was not a child and had no need to “grow up”. I was just me. What are your thoughts?
My dear, afterlife researchers don’t make the rules; we just try to understand them. What appears to happen is that actually entering a new lifetime is a process which requires that we prepare to be a fetus, and then a child. We are still our powerful eternal selves, of course, but if we transition before we have grown up here, then we return to the afterlife levels believing that we are at the age that we were when we died. Some of the accounts of the growing-up process emphasize that it is up to the child whether he grows up there quickly or more slowly, and that the process is necessary because we have so thoroughly bought into that lifetime and the process and having been a child here. So, as is true of so many things about our eternal lives, our minds are very powerful! We can create the notion of being a child if we have died as a child, and of growing up there if we die in childhood, and that seems to be what most of us choose to do.
As for your own regression experience, two possible explanations occur to me. It may be that you were old enough at that death for you to experience your return as an adult would; after all, at some points in history, age 14 was adulthood. But the more likely explanation is that it was your superconsciousness or your oversoul that was describing your return – the most of your mind that you merge back into after death – and that is, of course, always adult.
Thank you for your thoughts! I’m sure that others were wondering the same thing, dear.
Hi Roberta. Victor Zammit’s FAR brought me to your website to read “When Children Die.” Regarding Joy’s question, one way I’ve thought of it, after piecing together what I’ve read and my own thoughts, is that each spirit that incarnates here is part of a higher self, a higher soul. The higher soul has all of the wisdom of our many incarnations, but each spirit that comes from that soul for new worldly experiences starts out fresh, or nearly so. The individual spirit remains a unique aspect of the higher self, and goes through its own form of development both here and on the other side. I certainly don’t claim to completely understand this structure, this relationship between higher self and its separate spirits. Mikey mentions reconnecting with his higher self when he graduated. Whadaya think? – Jim
Hi Roberta. I came to your blog via Victor Zammit’s FAR. From what I have read, and thinking about it myself, I have come to believe that we who incarnate here are spirits that are a part of a higher self, or higher soul. The higher soul retains all of the experiences, knowledge, and wisdom accumulated by all of the spirits that have been created by it. Each new spirit from the higher soul starts out fresh, and must learn incarnate ways, and accumulates new experiences for its greater, higher soul. Transitioning back to the other side early, as a child, does not negate this need for personal growth on the part of the spiritual. This is consistent with past-life memories, as I think the new spirit can have some connection with its higher soul and the memories therein. I don’t have a complete vision of how this works, but this partial framework is consistent with what I’ve learned and my personal extrapolations that make sense to me. Also, remember that Mikey spoke of reconnecting with his higher self shortly after graduating. Whatcha think Roberta? I hope all is well with you! – Jim
Very odd. I double posted because my first post didn’t show up after a couple hours. Please edit as needed, Roberta. – Jim
Hello Jim! If I understand what you’re saying, then I think the evidence supports most of it except the thought that each being who comes to earth is “new.” What seems instead to be true is that, as Mikey Morgan says, we leave most of our eternal minds behind when we incarnate (“in a suitcase” is how he puts it), and then when we return we assume that greater identity once again. Decades ago, I read a communication from a very advanced being who said that we can’t really understand reincarnation while we’re here, but it’s best to think of ourselves as a bucket out of which each lifetime is dipped and back into which each lifetime is poured. And all the evidence that I’ve seen agrees that what is born here in a new baby is the mind of a being who has lived very many lives before.
A bit of personal evidence that argues that our minds when we are born are not new is that I have a vivid memory of my discovery that I wasn’t born a male this time, and I was less than a year old when it happened. How would I have known to be concerned about the difference, if I were a new being? (see “Transgender Folly” here).
I should note here, too, that the personality as it arrives here is not new, but rather it seems to carry over from prior incarnations. My beloved primary spirit guide was Thomas Jefferson in his penultimate lifetime, and having done a lot of research twenty-some years ago when I wrote My Thomas, I came to know that man’s personality traits and his character pretty well. I also have wisps of memory of having been his young protege when he was old (I am told that I was Richard Rush). And it is very clear to me that my guide, despite his having had a subsequent incarnation, is basically the same being who wrote our Declaration of Independence (although my saying that here will annoy him, since he is so over that incarnation; he says it wasn’t even his most important one).
So, simply think of the new being coming to earth as having been dipped from the bucket of a higher self that continues, and then being poured back into it again after death, and you will pretty much have it right!
I’m told that aborted fetuses do not get a soul, the Mothers soul runs the fetus, till a child is completely born. This way souls waiting to incarnate don’t lose their turn.
Thank you for your thoughts, Gary! I have seen several different theories. One is that since the dead can see alternative futures, they more or less know which fetuses will be aborted so those fetuses never are assigned inhabiting minds (I don’t use the word “soul” very often, since it implies that we are split into aspects in some fashion). Another idea that I have seen reported is that the mind is assigned at birth (which is something like your idea). But the dead tell us what is going on with so many aspects of this very broad field, and their testimony has so often proven to be true that I generally trust them the most.
What the dead consistently tell us is that parents are very carefully chosen, either before the birth or very early in the pregnancy. After all, nearly all lives are carefully planned! The incoming mind is somehow “shrunk” to become a pre-birth child (I don’t understand this process, but let’s just say that we go through extensive prep before we enter each lifetime). The fetus’s mind is in and out of its body (just as you and I astral-travel while our bodies sleep), mostly out of it but connected to it until late in the pregnancy, when it comes to inhabit the body more or less all the time. And then, of course, there are the many reports of miscarried and aborted fetuses being rescued and growing up in the afterlife levels (for example, there are NDEs and other reports in which people meet siblings who had been miscarried, and the NDE-er was shocked at this because he/she never had known about the miscarriage).
What I am coming to think based on all the evidence I have seen is that what I’ve described in the previous paragraph is what is typical. It happens most of the time. But there are a few reports of cases where the assigned mind decided not to proceed with that lifetime and another person was hurriedly prepared and slotted into that fetus late in its gestation; and I have read about at least one case where parents grieving a stillborn were told by a medium that the fetus never had a mind assigned to it (just one case, and it involves an unknown medium, so I don’t put a lot of stock in it).
So, dear Gary, it turns out that indeed nearly all miscarried and aborted fetuses do have minds, after all!
Very interesting post. I’ve always wondered about these aspects and really enjoyed reading the comments/questions also as I’ve waded through them myself!
Thank you, Britta! I don’t know why I never blogged about this sooner, since the death of a child is so traumatic. Elizabeth Boisson, the wonderful co-founder of Helping Parents Heal, first asked me to write this for their newsletter; then I realized, good grief, that I had better share it with everyone!
Thanks for this information Roberta,it lifts my spirit.
I’m so glad, dear! It uplifts me as well. I love knowing that discarded children are in the afterlife the closest thing that you can find to royalty. And doesn’t knowing that tell you volumes about the love and care that awaits us all?
I too have wondered about such things, and here is how it was explained to me:
A developing organism, human or otherwise, develops physically based on the coding in the DNA. The DNA is more than just a string of chemicals. DNA is a complex vibrating energy matrix, and these vibrations create a kind of music, music that can be heard in the spiritual realm. This music forms what Rupert Sheldrake calls a morphogenetic field.
The morphogenetic field forms a developmental template within which the physical entity can form. That is how DNA controls the development of the physical form.
Spiritual beings are also a complex vibrating energy matrix, although their ‘energy’ is of a different kind than our ‘energy’ in the physical domains. Our energy is temporal (requiring time to function) whereas spiritual energy is a-temporal.
These complex vibrations create a musical symphony and it is the music of that symphony that defines who and what we are.
When a developing physical entity creates a musical symphony that is in tune with, resonates with, or forms a complex harmony with the musical symphony of a spiritual being (or beings) there is a strong attraction, and they can merge and form even more beautiful music together. In the merging they actually become one, no longer separate entities, but the combined matrix as one individual being, a new creation.
In lower creatures the joining is instant and irreversible. In humans the joining is rather loose for about 5 to 7 years but eventually coalesces into one individual being. This loose connection is why certain aspects of the incarnating spirit can manifest in young children, but later on, not so much.
Sometimes this is all planned out. Sometimes it is merely the result of a serendipitous joining. Sometimes the joining is a perfect fit. Sometimes there are a few discordant tones that create internal conflict that must be worked out and ‘fine tuned’. Sometimes it can be a complete mess that requires a rescue.
If the new physical creature terminates early, since it is now a ‘new creation’, it must continue to mature in the spiritual domain, using the same morphogenetic field inherited from the physical DNA. Eventually the memories and wisdom of their previous incarnations return. This can happen very quickly, or take a long time.
This may not be the same story you were told, but I think it has many similarities.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Gary
Wow, Gary, that’s even poetic! Who gave you this explanation? It’s hard to know what to do with it until we know where it comes from, so please share that information, either here or in an email?
My own understanding comes from a patient slog of research over decades in written communications received before 1950, and in certain carefully vetted subsequent communications, including those that I’ve recently received from more advanced beings like Mikey Morgan. Dr. Ian Stevenson’s research as well. And none of it has been so poetic as what you’ve heard!
The process by which the physical and etheric bodies are made to fit together is nothing that any afterlife researcher with whom I am in contact knows for sure. We do know that there is a process by which we are prepared to enter, and that process seems to be tailored to one particular fetus since I have never seen a quick switch made to a different fetus if the first one dies (not that it doesn’t happen – I just never have seen it). On the other hand, if the entering entity’s plans change, it does seem to be usual for someone else to be quickly prepared and slotted in so that fetus won’t be wasted.
Given the limitations of cutting-edge scientific research being done by non-scientists (which is what afterlife research amounts to at this point), we have been assuming that there are areas which we needn’t bother to try to investigate – and which, at any rate, we likely can’t investigate using our current tools. This question of how a fetus and an entering person are made to fit together is one of those areas, but there are many! When mainstream science eventually stops being the absurd belief-system of atheistic materialism, it should be able pretty quickly to fill in all these little empty spots. (I call the scientific “fundamental dogma” absurd because Max Planck discovered God a century ago, and because now every honest physicist must admit that nothing is solid but everything is energy).
Thank you for taking the time to make a post that a lot of people are going to find entertaining!
“Who gave you this explanation? It’s hard to know what to do with it until we know where it comes from, so please share that information”
I’ll try to answer this, but vetting the source is a bit more complicated than you might have assumed. This may take awhile, so be patient.
It all started when I was 6 years old. I was riding a toy tractor and still hadn’t taken my suit coat off after coming home from church that Sunday, and I was worried about getting yelled at. At the same time, however, I was also contemplating the Sunday school lesson that day about how Solomon when granted a gift from God chose wisdom over physical riches. I asked for that same gift. It seemed the right thing to do, at the time.
I was also concerned by what my Mom warned me about; that as I grow up there would be many temptations that would work their evil and draw me away from God, and into condemnation, of some sort. I wasn’t sure what the condemnation was, but I was sure I didn’t want it. So I asked God to never let that happen.
Fast forward about 30 years and 10,000 prayers later, I made another request. I did not understand the Love that Jesus expressed for the silly humans on this planet. I wanted to understand that. So I asked.
I also asked that all too often question of God, which is why does He just float around doing nothing while those that Jesus Loves so much are starving, suffering, and dying all over the planet. Does he not care? I decided the only logical answer was the He doesn’t care, not even a little bit. That was a painful decision.
Be careful what you ask for. These and many other question have been answered, but not the way I thought it might happen. I was thinking that maybe a book would fly off the shelf with answers in it. Maybe a TV show would come on at just the right time to bring information and inspiration to these vexing queries. Even a profit in a white robe could stop me on the street and bring enlightenment. It could happen.
Nope.
What happened was that I found myself living the answers. My life path, my life experience, brought the information and the clarity to put it all together. So I got my answers, but in a fashion that was much more painful thanI had wanted, or expected.
Here is an important tip: When speaking to the Creator or one of His Minions, be very very specific. Ask for you answers in a book, or a movie. Don’t just ask for a naked answer because it might just slap you up the side of the head in a most unexpected and unfortunate way.
As I reflected on all this stuff something struck me that was baffling. There was an orderly path to my life that lead me, apparently with deliberate intent, bit by bit to the answers that I was seeking. Unraveling the time line, however, revealed that many of the events leading up to those experiences would had to have been set in place before I asked the question. Some of them before I was born. Some of them before my parents were born.
Hmmm. I hadn’t thought of this before, but it makes sense, the Creator being an a-temporal being and all, that He answers your questions you ask now, in the past, before you asked. Right now you could be living the answer to a question you haven’t even asked yet.
I had to figure this a-temporal thing out, which is actually impossible if most of your consciousness is stuck in a human brain, but I tried anyway.
Then the books and movies really did appear. I read authors like Dr. M. Scott Peck, Neale Donald Walsh, Marianne Williamson, Dr Gary Schwartz, Stuart Hameroff, Roger Penrose, David Hawkins, and many others.
I even read a bunch of the channeled stuff, Like Ramtha, Urantia, A Course in Miracles, and others who claim to be bringers of enlightenment. There is some good stuff there but this required lots of discernment since so many of these channelers are simply delusional. Some are truly channeling entities, but these entities are not what they claim to be. Some entities are tricksters, deceivers who toy with human fears and insecurities as a form of sport.
Putting it all together, my life experience, my study of spirituality, my research into quantum mechanics, and the experience of writing a few books of my own, something rather magical happened.
The mind is constantly bombarded by a bazillion pieces of information every second and it has to figure out what to do with it, how to process it. One remarkable method is to take all the bits and pieces that fly in from all directions in space (and time) and create a unique and separate thought form that is called a Gestalt.
The gestalt is not just all those bits of information stacked up and organized into neat piles. The gestalt is separate, whole, and unique with information, and answers, that are not contained in the bits and pieces that formed it.
The gestalt is an artifact of consciousness that is a bit beyond what we can truly understand. There are some good definitions of Gestalt Theory and Gestalt Learning Theory on Wikipedia.
So here is the answer to your question, “Who gave you this explanation?”. The thought form, the gestalt, my personal gestalt, gave me the explanation. Now I know that may not be a satisfactory answer for you. You are practiced in doing your own discovery and connecting all the dots. It’s the best answer I have, though, so there you go.
Happy Gestalting.
Gary
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Thank you, Gary! It’s good to read about your personal life-journey, and I am so glad that it has given you your answers; so many people live for their whole lives and they never ask these questions nor have them answered. Good for you! And if I were privileged to do research just for myself, I would have gladly read some (although not all) of your sources.
My problem, of course, is that I am not doing this for myself. I am responsible to so many people who need objective answers to their questions, and who need to trust that I will give them answer that are entirely based in source evidence and not in my own personal divination. So I don’t have the fun of reading recently-channeled stuff, and whatever I say must be based in the evidence.
(Heh – and you can imagine how my worldview was shaken when I discovered that I myself was a channel. I briefly wondered whether I would be able to rely upon my own channeled work ;-).)
I read your blog account of when children die and found it unbelievable, because there is nothing about reincarnation, rememberance of a previous life, pre-life planning, etc. Your
account seems to imply a new soul for every conception. Where
am I wrong here??
Hello Charlie! You’re not wrong, in that all the things you describe do happen, and nearly all of us have had many previous incarnations and will probably have many more. But:
1) Even adults who transition will congregate there until those they have loved in this lifetime can join them. There is no hurry, and no specific process to be followed; most of this is up to the being.
2) With adults, the merging of our mind with our higher consciousness happens very soon after death, so then we remember prior lives, etc.; but with children the evidence suggests that they do not immediately make that re-connection. It is entirely up to each child’s higher consciousness how rapidly it will happen for him, since everyone’s main concern is the child’s comfort and well-being.
3) Life-planning for the next lifetime usually comes a great deal later, in terms of earth-time. Again, this is highly personal: I know of situations where someone wanted to rectify some mistakes made in a lifetime just completed so they chose to reincarnate almost immediately. Again, this is all pretty much up to us.
I hope this helps, Charlie!
Roberta – Thank you for your cordial reply. Your explanation is worthy. I suggest you might have covered some of this in your “When Children Die” posit. I do wonder what your take is on what happens to our animal pets when they die, as many of us love our pets nearly as much (sometimes more) as human relatives/friends who have passed?? That animal life have souls is frequently a subject in typical afterlife paradigms reported in NDE’s, medium readings, etc.
Hello dear! I didn’t talk about these details in the primary post because it was already overlong, and because I was writing primarily for bereaved parents. Most of them know little about these details so my explanation wouldn’t make sense to them, and they don’t really care, anyway. What they want is to know how their children are doing.
Where pets are concerned, there is a blog post here on that topic that seems to come up now in Google searches. You might find and read that, if you’re curious. But the news about animals that we have loved on earth is all good! They are waiting for us in the afterlife levels, now young and healthy and exactly themselves – same personality, same everything.
Dear Roberta,
Your information is wonderful and resonates strongly as true in my own thinking and researching.
Have you come across Michael Newton, Ph.D. and his books: Journey of Souls, Destiny of Souls, Life Between Lives and Memories of the Afterlife?
Your comments about Children match his writings almost exactly.
…and the Truth shall set us free… to coin a phrase:)
Thank you for what you do,
Sara Christy
Welcome, Sara! I have indeed read Michael Newton’s books, but long ago. I recommend them in the suggested reading lists appended to my FUN books, but I say there that they shouldn’t be the first books people read on these subjects because they are written more from the perspective of the eternal mind, and not so much from the subjective perspective of the person finishing the incarnation (which is how we get most communications). As a result, they feel very different, and they might trouble some folks if they are the first things people read: we see less of the scenery and more of the scaffolding. But with that caveat, I think his work is wonderful!
Heh – yes, dear, Jesus does tell us that the truth will set us free, and that turns out to be more profoundly true than I ever had imagined!
The root cause of the problem is REINCARNATION belief!
It is another form of materialism holding the self(soul) earthbound.
Free oneself from the lie, the myth, the illusion and the distraction and
one is set free for eternal progression in the finer spirit realms.
‘The earth plane is the plane of individualisation – the crystallisation of
spirit’ (Abu)
‘You are but caterpillars, as yet, the butterfly does not again return’ (Abu)
Ref: The Abu Teachings.
Jeremy, EVERY form of belief is a problem. What we all should be doing is trying very hard to understand what is really true! And that includes you, sir. Your adamant belief that nothing like reincarnation can happen is as denigrating of the truth as is anyone’s insistence that it always must happen. It is time for all of us to open our minds to the fact that what is actually going on is far more complicated than anyone’s simplistic imaginings might suggest.
Roberta – Can you provide one scientifically proven case of reincarnation or a past life?
The New Age Movement has made this doctrine so attractive to an increasing following and one finds it more difficult to find a medium who does not believe it and so often will tell their paying client about their supposed past lives now affecting their present incarnation with the karmic influence. Unfortunately no proof?
The fine volumes ( I have them all) written by the pioneer researcher Arthur Findlay with the finest of mediums John Sloan, provide no mention of reincarnation. Profound teachers inform us that their is no mention or teaching of reincarnation in the spiritual spheres where once a soul has adjusted and let go of the physical attraction of the earth plane.
There is no such requirement as everything is learnt better and quicker on the spirit side. The theory and idea is only an attraction propagated on the earth plane with heavy influence from the lower and earthbound states of the etheric.
Please let us have your comments – thank you.
Sincerely
Jeremy
Mr. Fox, with respect, neither Arthur Findlay nor John Sloan is able to provide the last word on anything. No single medium or expert can. And “New Age” is a pejorative term for spiritual quackery, to be frank; it has no place here, either.
I didn’t like the idea of reincarnation. For most of my decades of research, I resisted it. But the evidence for the fact that something like reincarnation happens is so abundant that I can no longer ignore it. Nor can anyone else who is involved in the open-minded pursuit of the truth (which automatically excludes all mainstream scientists, BTW).
Thank you for commenting!